I'll pipe in on this.

I'm afraid that when you over burden businesses with taxes and give them additional incentive to do business in other countries.......... they will. The down side of this is that you lose jobs and tax base. Then once this happens, the 'safety net' for society that was planned by politicians and paid for by funds that were forced out of the job producing class becomes unsustainable because there ends up being more people in the net than providing funds to the net. America is facing the same thing if we don't get rid of the loser in the white house that is creating three times the debt that the prior dolt that held the office.

What is funny to me is how BO used to trash Bush about how bad his deficit spending was then in 2009 he passed a continuing resolution to continue the BUSH PROPOSED budget. Again in 2010 he signed yet another CR on the same BUSH PROPOSED budget. Then in 2011 he did the same thing YET AGAIN. Finally in 2012 (hopefully his last year in office) he finally signs an actual budget that is not a CR based budget. The unfortunate thing is that he is STILL outspending Bush.

If he keeps this up we'll be as bad as Greece in no time.

JMHO

Quoted from "pbk.Mystik"

Then in 2011 he did the same thing YET AGAIN.

Which should tell you no matter who is voted into office they are NOT there for the benefit of the people of the USA....clearly the 2 party system is failing the electorate!

Tar and feathers, tar and feathers..

Quoted from "murdy_ta"

Quoted from "pbk.Mystik"

Then in 2011 he did the same thing YET AGAIN.

Which should tell you no matter who is voted into office they are NOT there for the benefit of the people of the USA....clearly the 2 party system is failing the electorate!

Tar and feathers, tar and feathers..

No what has failed the electorate is politicians trying to buy votes by using money from the federal coffers to prop up failed social programs that in the long run hurt the economy. It is high time for congressional term limits that way these guys don't feel that they can be in congress FOR LIFE and won't try to buy votes for themselves by spending SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY.

They are causing these problems by investing in failed programs that offer ZERO RETURN then say that the answer is let us take even more from people to put into these programs and all will be better.

Quoted from "Redneck29"

Para, I'm looking forward to your latest perspective on the EU, you too Canky.

I'd like to see closer political ties, and closer fiscal union.

Currently it's every member for theirself (understanble).

I now doubt the current Eurozone is sustainable, but the concept of a common currency is sound, as long as the criteria for joining is properly observed

I am still strongly in favour of the EU, freedom of movement (i.e jobs) is still important to me although my personal mobility is restricted.

I've got no problem with a European Federation

Quoted from "canky"

Quoted from "Redneck29"

I've got no problem with a European Federation

Closer and closer to losing national sovereignty and that one world government.

Quoted from "Redneck29"

I'll opt for democracy every day of the week.

Surely the USA, as a federal republic, is democratic.

I used to be hot on sovereignty , but now I'm not so sure.

My job is about to be outsourced to a Chinsese controlled company (I'll be going with it), I think this the future for technology jobs like mine.

I'd rather not transfer, but if I want to remain employed then I haven't got much of a choice.

A one world government would be nice - no wars, shared wealth etc But it's a dream that will never happen

Quoted from "Redneck29"

Its an unfair and unrealistic comparison. The USA has to all intents and purposes been a "single nation" since its creation.

I was thinking of the end product, not the process.

However, some laws differ from state to state, a Federal EU could be the same.

I'll grant you that it would be virtually impossible to achieve when isolationism seems to be currently popular

Quoted from "Redneck29"

Quoted from "canky"

A one world government would be nice - no wars, shared wealth etc But it's a dream that will never happen

It is, thankfully, a nightmare that will never happen.

There has to be an "other side of the fence" to which people can escape if they are not happy with the country they live in - in a one-world nation there would be no such place - we would all be prisoners of the state.

All The Best

Couldn't agree more Red!!!!

Quoted from "Redneck29"

Every single person who supports the EU should be hanging their heads in shame over the destruction of democracy and accountability that is going on in Greece - the very birth place of democracy!

It is simply not acceptable.

All The Best

Hear! Hear!

Agreed 100%.

Quoted from "Redneck29"

How can the elected government of the UK, within a Federal Europe, be truly accountable to the UK electorate?

It can't.

In a federal state, there wouldn't be a UK government as such, I am think of the US model, Governors ,Congress, Senate etc.

Now let's get this straight, I am not suggesting we actually do this, I am contemplating what an truly federal Europe could be like.

I wouldn't have thought a federal europe would be anything like the USSR, I think we could achieve something more like a USA lite.

Anyway, it's still not going to happen - if anything it's likely to become more fragmented

Hi there.

This is post-IMF Para. I was deprived of the "bellum" because my country no longer has the means to wage war and, well, the bankrupt part is obvious. (now seriously, Woody, if you're reading this we have to figure out a way of changing the e-mail from my former account because I don't remember the password and I can't access it - that is, the e-maill)

Anyway, I know I'm two months late but here are my prayers that everything goes smoothly for everyone in here in 2012 - or at least lets hope that it won't be worse than 2011.

Now, what can I say about the EU in a few short sentences...

A big, big mess. I really don't have much time (today) to write a more elaborated post about it but no need to say that I'm increasingly deluded with it. And, as a Portuguese - and especially because of it - I'm growing extremely resentful of our external policies during the past three decades.

I don't want to derail this thread into one that is mainly about the Portuguese situation - that isn't my intention - but I want to leave this in here: after Greece, we're next. And after us, Spain will be the next one the fall.

But comparing Portugal - and even Spain - to Greece is a mistake. Unlike the Greeks we've never crooked our statistics, we've been playing by the rules. That is something we are at ease to say.

Portugal's downfall? Economic non-competitiveness. "But that's your fault", some may say, to which I reply - well, is it?

Portugal - and Southern Europe, as a whole, but especially Portugal, Spain and Italy - wasn't ready for the Euro. Our economy simply wasn't suit for it. Unfortunately - and this is the legacy of over 5 decades of a patriarchal, catholic-corporativist dictatorship - we've relied in a cheap workforce singe the rise of industrialisation in this land.

That was brought to an end - of course - with the rise of Asia. We lost our competitiveness and, to make things worse, we swapped from a relatively cheap currency (the Escudo) to a strong one (the Euro).

The Euro is suited for strong, advanced economies. Unfortunately we weren't there yet. And I don't hide the fact that we - the Portuguese and the Spanish (even though those, unlike us, had regions of the country where this wasn't a problem - I'm thinking of Catalonia and the Basque Country) - should have changed that. We should have pursued a policy of educating our citizens and evolving our situation, so we could join the "European standard" and join the ranks of the likes of Germany, the BeNeLux and France.

And believe me, we were doing it. From the Carnation Revolution in 1974 (and the Spanish transition to Democracy one year later) to the 2000's the Iberian Peninsula developed at an astonishing rate and we tried to advance our economies from basic ones to advanced, high-technology ones. And, sure, that was made possible by the European Union. We were, steadily, getting closer to Northern Continental Europe. Some regions of Spain (Barcelona/Madrid) and Portugal (Lisbon) were already above the European average. But, thinking in retrospective, we fell into a trap.

If we profited from our rise, Germany and France profited even more. There was never such thing as "offered" money to us. We were new markets for German and French goods. That's why they had no problem in offering loans and loans to our population. In a way, we were cannonball. And the moment we became too expensive for German manufacturers to operate in here, they went to Eastern Europe and, shortly after, Asia.

That's how the free market works, I know - but if we're supposed to create an Union (an idea which, by the way, I'm all for, as long as we're all respected and we strive for a common goal - not for what France or Germany wants) we need to cooperate and stop praying on the weakest inside the Union. We can't simply leave countries out of sudden on their own when, not a long time before, we were profiting from them.

And unlike Greece, the Spanish/Portuguese didn't make any foul play.

Now I really don't have much time to go ahead and make a lengthy exposition on every thing the EU did wrong in here but if you do have questions, make them.

I just want to make this clear: the "loaners" profited much more from the current situation than we did and we ended up being the fall guys. There is a massive growth in anti-EU animosity in the Iberian Peninsula, and unless things change - I doubt - the idea of an united Europe can be put to rest.

I knew you'd be back. You always come back.

;)

You know, I actually came here back in the end of 2011 but I wasn't able to log in. I ended up giving up on it because I couldn't remember my password and I can't access my fake e-mail. So I sort of rage quit.

But I decided to lurk here today and nostalgia got the best of me and I ended up creating another account

I hope everything's going fine.